UND Postgame

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GRIZNATION
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UND Postgame

Postby GRIZNATION » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:48 pm

We won the game.


JJ has an "ankle sprain" his words.

Yesterday had some good things and bad things but considering we were on the road and have 10 players out with injuries a win is better than what we should expect.

Gamboa made some game changing plays in space, especially in the 4th qtr.

SSH played a nice game with the one Int being the exception. After the game was over he said "I wished I didn't throw that ball it was a dumb decision". Not that big of a deal it happens to the best of them.

Sullivan made the game winning FG so that has to be a confidence booster for him. Missed extra point was the snap, not Sullivan.

Jones was a stud at WR yesterday, If we didn't have him where would we be?

Cant think of anything else, other than the crowd sucked and there was very little tailgating at the Alerus Center. Bad atmosphere all around.
Coach Hauck after the 2007 Griz /Cat Game - "I wish there were a 5th quarter in that game so we could kick their ass some more!"

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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:49 pm

My favorite part of the day was after the game on the field. A very wise and LONG time supporter of Grizzly athletics was talking to me. Haslem walked by us and this guy grabbed him....introduced him to Billy Cockhill and said "you need to hire this guy". Very funny stuff even though I wouldn't want Cockhill anywhere near this offense.

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby putter » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:44 pm

The win was the highlight of the day. Time to heal up and, hopefully, get some guys back. With EWU losing Adams for 3-6 weeks it could be an opportunity to put some distance between them and the Griz. We will see how they do with an injury to a major player.

This coaching staff will earn their checks if JJ can't go with his ankle dinged up. I want to see an gameplan that takes advantage of who is out there on O and mask our weaknesses at the same time. Micky D says Montana needs to run the ball but does not have the O-Line at this time to run smashmouth football. Here is to a week off, getting healthy, and gameplanning!

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby Grizfan-24 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:43 am

Watched the UND/UM of game some more over the weekend:

Per Offense:
1. I'll write more about this later in the week, but the more and more I watch I don't honestly believe it is scheme. I think it is half personnel and half execution. If you watch the first half in particular, it isn't guys who are unblocked in the run game it is the inability to execute the block that was asked. A few players struggled and we missed our big blocking TE last week. Neither of his two replacements are near the equivalent.

2. Teams are going to sell out to stop the run. They are going to saturate gaps. You don't stop that saturation by dropping back into 3 or 5 step vertical sets. You do it by using snag or stick concept routes where the line doesn't have to block. We aren't going to win if we have 3rd and 9. That is why you see bubble routes from the inside, zero routes on the outside, or some sort of combination.

3. This offense had good potential at the beginning of the year. The injures and other issues have made it something less than optimal. You have to make lemonade out of lemons and right now it isn't very good lemonade. There are probably 7 million offensive coordinators that Grizzly land wants right now, and aside from some some of the best, they would be hard pressed in getting much more out of what we have. My response to the critics of what is going on right now, is tell me what is a better scheme for what we have?
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Re: UND Postgame

Postby putter » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:17 am

Grizfan-24 wrote:Watched the UND/UM of game some more over the weekend:

Per Offense:
1. I'll write more about this later in the week, but the more and more I watch I don't honestly believe it is scheme. I think it is half personnel and half execution. If you watch the first half in particular, it isn't guys who are unblocked in the run game it is the inability to execute the block that was asked. A few players struggled and we missed our big blocking TE last week. Neither of his two replacements are near the equivalent.

2. Teams are going to sell out to stop the run. They are going to saturate gaps. You don't stop that saturation by dropping back into 3 or 5 step vertical sets. You do it by using snag or stick concept routes where the line doesn't have to block. We aren't going to win if we have 3rd and 9. That is why you see bubble routes from the inside, zero routes on the outside, or some sort of combination.

3. This offense had good potential at the beginning of the year. The injures and other issues have made it something less than optimal. You have to make lemonade out of lemons and right now it isn't very good lemonade. There are probably 7 million offensive coordinators that Grizzly land wants right now, and aside from some some of the best, they would be hard pressed in getting much more out of what we have. My response to the critics of what is going on right now, is tell me what is a better scheme for what we have?


24, this is what I would like to see more. What happened to play-action to draw those backers in who are filling those gaps? UND backers hit hard and quickly so play-action may have been effective especially with SSH who has more height and is a pocket QB. Against NDSU why not throw some screens to Emanuel's side? I felt sorry for the tackle because he had a tough day yet Montana did not throw a screen to his side to at least make him wonder why he was blowing past his man almost every play. This is what I meant by gameplanning to what you have. You have far more knowledge of X's and O's then I have but if you have a struggling O-Line who can't (or presently struggles with) the scheme then you need to help them out. This is what I do not see happening from our 2 coordinators

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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:57 am

If you know the other team is going to "saturate the gaps" then do something to unsaturate them.

Every team for the rest of the year us going to do what UND did to us and they are prime for giving up big plays doing it. It's funny watching us flounder when there are options IMO regardless of personal and we are not doing things to counter act what's happening to us. Even when we have our TE, Henderson and JJ we are not diverse. We work hash mark to sideline and horizontally with stretch and bubble screens. Not to hard to game plan for that.

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby Grizfan-24 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:11 am

No it isn't, but frankly I believe it is the inability of the offensive line that prevents some of the adjustments. Maybe they are holding back on the screen game, because it was in the play book and used fairly heavily last year.

Sometimes I get the sense there is some walking before they run going on here. I think the game plan since the beginning has been greatly reduced.

It is right to question the play calling but question it in the right way. I wonder why there haven't been more screens.

I think the personnel limitations has limited the attack of the middle of the field. JJ hasn't been able to stay in the pocket (he flushes quickly) and we don't have receivers that seem (appearances only) adept at attacking the 5-15 yard region in the middle of the field.

The routes are there, but it does take a special receiver to find holes in teh middle of the field. Running rollout and scrambling eliminate it, unless it is deep posts by the backside receiver. A staple route from last year.
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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:48 am

We have 15 WRs on this team and 1 other that has played WR in the past.

Are you really trying to say not one of them is capable of going over the middle and finding a soft spot in the zone or beating a LB out of the slot?

If so that has to be on the coaching staff, they recruited players that are not DI capable or they either do not know how to or are unable to get their scheme across to the player.

Either way....I don't buy it.

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby grizpack » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:04 pm

Do we have TE's anymore, or do we just keep them in hoping they can block someone?

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby grizteria » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:29 pm

I think Ralston was hurt and didn't go on the trip. Never saw Sprunk but Sayler was definitely there dropping passes and missing blocks. We need these guys to play better and stay healthy down the stretch.

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby Grizfan-24 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:41 pm

I couldn't believe the number of routes run on Saturday if an under route guy just put his foot in the ground and stopped in grass the whole field would have opened up. We had a bunch guys who got themselves covered on an in route because they were in too much of a hurry.

In all honesty the middle field routes (digs, Snake routes (under sam over mike) posts, and drags are the slowest developing. A quarterback can make a pre-snap read on a perimeter route and throw it based upon a perceived matchup. You can throw hitches, outs and corners in a three step drop concept to limit hits on the QB.

I tried measuring the time to throw in the first half while JJ was still in and he was lucky on a lot of those passing snaps to have more than a two or three count to release the ball.

Which is why I believe we are seeing the Snag, Stick and Smash routes to the outside more than the Cal/WSU pocket concept where there are four routes where if given time someone is going to be wrong.

I can only assume, but either by concept or execution the routes that should be open against a 3-4 or a 5-2 (UND showed both) weren't. I think the run game is going to be a crap shoot at best and I get the frustration fans have in this regard. To that end I really believe the concept is there and the fact of the matter is I don't think they are going to execute all that well.

The problem as I see it, is that you have an OL that can't protect well enough in the passing game nor maintain blocks well enough in the run game that counters (play action) are really hard to execute.
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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 12:58 pm

There is always a way around problems and this is no different. If what you are doing isn't working and for the learning impaired IT ISN'T then do something else.

Dictate to the defense what is going to happen, run the option or wish bone. We have 2 weeks to implement something new or different if nothing else it gives future teams something to think about. He'll if our OL is this bad I would just line up a center and 2 guards the rest being TEs and WRs they can't cover everyone.

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby putter » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:19 pm

Fly sweep to Van.....seal the edges.... :grin:

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Re: UND Postgame

Postby Grizfan-24 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:58 am

I have had a hard time holding my tongue in regards to some idiot posters on egriz. I don't mind rational discussion of problems and we have our share. People are entitled to their opinion but the last week has been classic irrational egriz.

This offense is as hard to evaluate as any Griz team I have followed in a long time. Mostly because I believe there is a laundry list of things this group of players cannot execute at this moment. As I noted before, the scheme is there and I think the play calling is there as well. I after watching the UND and the NDSU game again, there are just a lot of things these guys can't execute very well. Who is most responsible for the failure? I am fairly sure the blame doesn't fall in one camp or the other.

Really I struggle with what can be done to fix what is not necessarily a weak offensive line but rather a line that struggles executing plays consistently.

I don't think you can get more simple in run game blocking with the power man set and zone blocking. There isn't a lot of movement or tons of blocking rules. I was going to write a blog on this and provide some pictures, but my own schedule is going to prevent that for at least this week. I am not trying to make excuses for players or coaches here, but I really believe what some are asking for might be nearly impossible.

That being said, here is what may make things better, if I were an offensive coordinator and I had the ability to make changes....This of course comes from a different perspective...

1. More perimeter screens of any type. Fast and solid screens to X/Z provide the type of perimeter attack that stretches defenses out. We run them probably four to five times a game but I am generally under the philosophy the more you get backers to move horizontally. We run them enough to know they are in the play book.

2. I am adverse to roll out. I believe for a line that struggles, blocking a moving target on two lines of movement (horizontally/vertically) while you are moving is asking for trouble. I think it increases the chances for free shots on the QB and limits the effectiveness of the offense. Just my opinion, but you make it easier for the defense to cover people. I think if you want to increase the chances of the OL seeing success in the passing game, then I think you have to attack areas where teams are going to bring pressure from. This would require us engaging in some different formations, but running zone read with a stick or snag concept on the edge is pretty effective.

We've run it sparingly this year, but we did run it out of gun last year with the zone read look. Line always blocks zone, and the inside receiver runs a bubble, the outside guy runs a arrow or stick route to the backside of zone. I love it as a concept and watched us run it terribly the other day when our outside receivers run by the grass into an area where the backers are at.

3. More spread or trips formations. I think it simplifys the blocking for linemen and creates better angles. Pulls guys out of the box and simplifys reads for the offensive lineman.

Of course I don't know the play book but rather these are assumptions made upon what I have seen in the past that they could run more. I don't know that it would be effective, but with SSH at the helm we are going to get a pocket passer and with JJ him staying in the pocket is probably a good idea. So two or three step drops and quick set pass drops seem to be more effective ways of taking advantage of what the line gives and what defenses want to do.
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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:59 pm

I agree with you 100% on pulling guys out of the box using different wide out packages. It's hard to run into 8 or in the box with a good OL. Defenses know we have trouble protecting the QB so send pressure early and often.

We need to make them pay for that and I think JJ needs to rip off some runs to make other things open up and make the defense accountable.

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