The Magic Is Dead

Smash Mouth Griz Football Talk.....MB Style

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GRIZNATION
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby GRIZNATION » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:28 am

Man, this is a good thread! So many excellent points being made. 24 you and I are in agreement on the look to the future way of doing business. We had a great run but if you look behind you get passed. The next head coach is vital to putting the train back on the tracks. I posted some info in the 37 Club for you to read.

The next head coach search is already happening.
Coach Hauck after the 2007 Griz /Cat Game - "I wish there were a 5th quarter in that game so we could kick their ass some more!"

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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby CV Griz Fan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:48 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:Alpha again great points,

My theory all along was that we were focusing on all the wrong things when crap started to hit the fan. I believe it started late in Hauck's tenure, but I believe it was masked by a crappy Big Sky and some deep runs into the playoffs.

Hauck did a lot of things well, his teams were disciplined and focused but neither of his offensive scheme or his defensive schemes were built for the playoffs. I truly believe if that you run power and a base 4-3, you have to have mandingos that will change games by talent. Hauck's teams had a few of those (Reynolds, Mariani) but not enough to be dominant. NDSU has those kids. At several positions. You can draw up a lot of gameplans that are otherworldy effective against power and a cover 2 4-3, but you can't get beyond the fact that you know where those guys are.

That is the difference on the field. NDSU has that talent. We don't. We haven't had collective talent like that in a while, but rather pieces of a whole (like this year). You can catch lightning in a bottle, but with teams like NDSU in the mix you are going to need some luck.

I am tired of debating really how things went wrong. I don't think they went wrong and I could give a flying leap whether the U has Engstrom, Denninson or atilla the hun at the helm. I do believe that a new hire must, must be with the understanding that we aren't looking to mimic anymone. I don't think Delaney is mimiking NDSU, I think that is Delaney's died in the wool trait. We don't need to return to anything, because none of our national title teams and championship run teams had much in common with the others.

As long as we continue to look back we are destined to compare ourselves with an unattainable standard. As I have said before, I trust haslam to make that choice if needs to. But we have to stop with this running the program off the tracks conversation. Not gonna get us anywhere.


24:
You make some good points. I agree with you that living in the past is counter productive. So is trying to find someone to blame for the Griz fall from grace. Burying your head in the sand and thinking the Griz program is still at an elite level is even worse. I agree that having a good vision for the future is the only pragmatic way to approach things. The challenge for Griz nation is to get
all parties on the same page. Can that happen with RE at helm? Delaney? Who knows? I liken the current Griz situation to traditional FBS powers that have fallen off of the pace. Take Notre Dame for instance. Until the "Domers" admitted that their stubborn and out of touch mindset that their
academic standards were what was keeping their program from competing for a NCAA title was wrong, nobody saw how far ND had really fallen. Of course Stanford's rise to the upper echelons of the BCS hastened ND's converson to reality. The UM will need a similar "re-boot" IMO.

LongTimeCatFan
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The Magic Is Dead

Postby LongTimeCatFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:27 pm

Football is a very, very simple sport. There is too much talk about things more complicated than reality.

The best teams ever have been and will always be the teams that are best at blocking and tackling. The fundamentals of the game are paramount.

Recruiting, Coaching, and Training are how you get better at blocking and tackling.

It doesn't matter what scheme you run as long as it's not too complicated for the players to execute.

So where are the deficiencies? Blocking or Tackling?

How could you improve those deficiencies? Recruiting,Coaching, or Training?

Any improvements made should be addressing these simple concepts. Everything else is just fluff.

Yes, I realize I'm a Cat fan, but believe me when I say we're both trying to reach the same destination, so I've given it some thought. Also, I've heard Sonny Holland speak a couple times. ;)

LongTimeCatFan
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The Magic Is Dead

Postby LongTimeCatFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:30 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:Alpha again great points,

My theory all along was that we were focusing on all the wrong things when crap started to hit the fan. I believe it started late in Hauck's tenure, but I believe it was masked by a crappy Big Sky and some deep runs into the playoffs.

Hauck did a lot of things well, his teams were disciplined and focused but neither of his offensive scheme or his defensive schemes were built for the playoffs. I truly believe if that you run power and a base 4-3, you have to have mandingos that will change games by talent. Hauck's teams had a few of those (Reynolds, Mariani) but not enough to be dominant. NDSU has those kids. At several positions. You can draw up a lot of gameplans that are otherworldy effective against power and a cover 2 4-3, but you can't get beyond the fact that you know where those guys are.

That is the difference on the field. NDSU has that talent. We don't. We haven't had collective talent like that in a while, but rather pieces of a whole (like this year). You can catch lightning in a bottle, but with teams like NDSU in the mix you are going to need some luck.

I am tired of debating really how things went wrong. I don't think they went wrong and I could give a flying leap whether the U has Engstrom, Denninson or atilla the hun at the helm. I do believe that a new hire must, must be with the understanding that we aren't looking to mimic anymone. I don't think Delaney is mimiking NDSU, I think that is Delaney's died in the wool trait. We don't need to return to anything, because none of our national title teams and championship run teams had much in common with the others.

As long as we continue to look back we are destined to compare ourselves with an unattainable standard. As I have said before, I trust haslam to make that choice if needs to. But we have to stop with this running the program off the tracks conversation. Not gonna get us anywhere.


Hauck's teams were carried by his OL

PlayerRep
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby PlayerRep » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:38 pm

GRIZNATION wrote:Man, this is a good thread! So many excellent points being made. 24 you and I are in agreement on the look to the future way of doing business. We had a great run but if you look behind you get passed. The next head coach is vital to putting the train back on the tracks. I posted some info in the 37 Club for you to read.

The next head coach search is already happening.


You are being dishonest or a liar. There is no coaching search going on right now that I know of and Delaney is our coach for the future. Why do people have to say dumb things to get attention or act like they know more than they do. The information you posted in the 37 club is a lie as well. Ha

PlayerRep
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby PlayerRep » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:44 pm

LongTimeCatFan wrote:
Hauck's teams were carried by his OL


That is not true. Haucks teams had very nice skill players some of whom are in the NFL. It is obvious that you make things up when it's obvious to us that have played the game, you are wrong.

LongTimeCatFan
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The Magic Is Dead

Postby LongTimeCatFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:55 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:
Hauck's teams were carried by his OL


That is not true. Haucks teams had very nice skill players some of whom are in the NFL. It is obvious that you make things up when it's obvious to us that have played the game, you are wrong.


Jesus Christ you fuckstick.... It's an opinion, yes my opinion. It's not always going to line up with your opinion. I'm not making things up and I'm not wrong. Many people share the same opinions I have. So shut your cream pie hole because nobody fucking cares what you think anyway. Capiche?

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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby Grizfan-24 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:45 pm

Since certain people love to destroy threads wherever they go, why not here?

Happen to agree with Cat fan. You look at everyone of Hauck's teams from 2003 to 2009, not one of them complete on either side of the ball, but one consistent element: superior o-line play. Hadn't thought of it, and that assessment is on point in my honest opinion.

No kidding he had some 'nice' skill players. Sambrano, Mariani, Reynolds. No doubt solid offensive players. He never had an elite quarterback in the group nor a defensive group that wasn't more than the sum of its parts as well.

But anyways, looking forward is probably a good way to go if I am Haslam. We can debate the past if we want but it isn't gonna make us better on Saturday or next year. Doesn't take an advanced degree in football to figure that out. Heck I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn express last night and I figured it out.
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.
--Ron Burgandy

http://monidasports.blogspot.com

PlayerRep
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby PlayerRep » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:10 pm

LongTimeCatFan wrote:Jesus Christ you fuckstick.... It's an opinion, yes my opinion. It's not always going to line up with your opinion. I'm not making things up and I'm not wrong. Many people share the same opinions I have. So shut your cream pie hole because nobody fucking cares what you think anyway. Capiche?


Lots of people care what I think, my credibility is good with the majority of message boards. They know that I have good access to information, I understand the game since I obviously played football. Nothing that jerks like you and other posters say or think will change that.

LongTimeCatFan
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The Magic Is Dead

Postby LongTimeCatFan » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:44 pm

PlayerRep wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:Jesus Christ you fuckstick.... It's an opinion, yes my opinion. It's not always going to line up with your opinion. I'm not making things up and I'm not wrong. Many people share the same opinions I have. So shut your cream pie hole because nobody fucking cares what you think anyway. Capiche?


Lots of people care what I think, my credibility is good with the majority of message boards. They know that I have good access to information, I understand the game since I obviously played football. Nothing that jerks like you and other posters say or think will change that.


Your credibility is shit. Nobody gives a flying fuck about some washed up has been jock sniffer, and nob slobber. The game has passed you by, but even the simplest concepts of the game are clearly missed by you. For Christ's sake, most of us have played the game and have continued to be a student of the game well after we played it. I , and most of the readers of these boards, quite frankly, could give a shit less that you played corner for Dartmouth or whatever it was your claim to fame was a hundred years ago.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. It has no more or less value than any one else's. Yet you seem to think otherwise, WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE FUCKING HATE YOU!!!!

Take a long look in the mirror before you start slinging that "jerk" label around.... ass.

To the rest of the board:

Sorry to fuck up your thread. That wasn't my intent when I started posting here.

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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby CV Griz Fan » Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:53 am

LongTimeCatFan wrote:
PlayerRep wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:Jesus Christ you fuckstick.... It's an opinion, yes my opinion. It's not always going to line up with your opinion. I'm not making things up and I'm not wrong. Many people share the same opinions I have. So shut your cream pie hole because nobody fucking cares what you think anyway. Capiche?


Lots of people care what I think, my credibility is good with the majority of message boards. They know that I have good access to information, I understand the game since I obviously played football. Nothing that jerks like you and other posters say or think will change that.


Your credibility is shit. Nobody gives a flying fuck about some washed up has been jock sniffer, and nob slobber. The game has passed you by, but even the simplest concepts of the game are clearly missed by you. For Christ's sake, most of us have played the game and have continued to be a student of the game well after we played it. I , and most of the readers of these boards, quite frankly, could give a shit less that you played corner for Dartmouth or whatever it was your claim to fame was a hundred years ago.

Your opinion is just that, an opinion. It has no more or less value than any one else's. Yet you seem to think otherwise, WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE FUCKING HATE YOU!!!!

Take a long look in the mirror before you start slinging that "jerk" label around.... ass.

To the rest of the board:

Sorry to fuck up your thread. That wasn't my intent when I started posting here.


LTCF:
Speaking from experience, if you're going to take PR's bait, make sure you're in the right "state of mind" before you respond. I'd recommend a little yoga or meditation. Believe me, letting him get to you isn't worth it.

PlayerRep
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby PlayerRep » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:29 pm

If UM is just another team, why do the majority of Big Sky coaches tell their teams that the road to the championship and being a top team goes through Montana (i.e. beating UM)?

putter
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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby putter » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:11 am

PlayerRep wrote:If UM is just another team, why do the majority of Big Sky coaches tell their teams that the road to the championship and being a top team goes through Montana (i.e. beating UM)?


Why, because they are new and don't realize that the road to the championship has gone through Cheney in the recent past.

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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby Grizfan-24 » Wed Nov 12, 2014 10:41 am

What I haven't understood for a long time is why people cannot differentiate between tradition and the present.

Teams put Montana at the top of the list, because it is Montana. Traditionally the class of the Big Sky Conference. I don't believe for a moment at this point teams in the conference circle the Montana game as a must win to win the conference right now. Pretty sure EWU has had that on lock down since 2012.

To that end, even in the recent down turn Montana is still highly competitive (even in 2012). We aren't Northern Colorado, Portland State or Weber right now. We don't have tire tracks on our back. We are one of the three or four most consistently good teams in this conference.

The difference between now and then, is that we don't always beat who we are supposed to beat. This year might be the exception to that end, that there isn't a loss on our schedule right now that isn't against a better or at least equal football team. But the last few years, those losses have mounted up against the middle of the pack (NAU last year, Sac, UND, SUU) and lower teams.

I still don't believe we are as good as we think we are in regards to tradition. I think we have been decidedly mediocre in collective talent since 2010 and that is evident again this year.

We can continue to get the best from teams because we continue to be good if teams want to beat us, they still do have to bring a good effort. We just don't reciprocate right now in teams of the same calibre or better.

That needs to change. But we sure as hell need to stop blaming Engstrom and company for it. Too short sided and we are focusing on the wrong things. Looking backward is all that people want to do, we need to look forward and it appears that a few fans have as well as Haslam has.
I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.
--Ron Burgandy

http://monidasports.blogspot.com

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Re: The Magic Is Dead

Postby MissoulaMarinerFan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:20 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:...That needs to change. But we sure as hell need to stop blaming Engstrom and company for it. Too short sided and we are focusing on the wrong things. Looking backward is all that people want to do, we need to look forward and it appears that a few fans have as well as Haslam has.


Yup, in the end, you just have to control what you can control and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. Does it suck? Yes. Was everything on all fronts handled as well as it could have been? Probably not, but there's no reason to continue crying over spilled milk. Hopefully, in the end we'll be a better program for it...even if the results aren't there right away.



:gogriz:


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