Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

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Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby Grizfan-24 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:00 am

Rob Ash got up on his soap box yesterday and sounded like a three year old child who didn't get dessert. He went on and on about commitment and how the recruiting process is broken and how kids should be held to standards and honor the strength of their verbal commitment. First, I get his point and how is frustrated that players continue to shop after their verbals to a school. Second, I get the recruiting process is cut throat.

However, before I go on about the recruiting process, this wasn't about Ash losing Daum to Stitt. That probably had some to do with it, but more about a few players late in the process within hours of the signing deadline switched their allegiances. As enjoyable for griz fans watching him squirm and wax a downright depressing speech on signing day, this wasn't about Daum in the slightest.

This is the system that he and other coaches have created. Recruiting is a cut throat business. I believe Ash has the right intentions but he would have some more credibility if a) hadn't pushed kids out of verbal commitments to other schools, and b) at a podunk third tier school in the middle of the hinterlands. His message is going to fall on deaf ears, because very few coaches share his sentiment (at least publicly) and most coaches are motivated by wins and losses even if it is at the expense of someone else.

The coaches profession isn't a tight-nit brotherhood. When you wander into coaches conventions this time of the year it is like a trip back through your high school experience. Incredibly clique ridden and a bunch of guys obsessed on how they are perceived. So Ash can scream from the mount, but as long as Auburn, Alabama, and others are okay at putting absurd pressure on 18 year old kids to re-neg on verbal commitments, you aren't going to find much of anything but crickets in the room in terms of vocal support.

Recruiting players is a dirty, dirty process. In most cases you are selling players a bill of goods but no product. Coaches wander around high schools and develop relationships with coaches and players when the situation suits them. When it doesn't, you won't get an ounce of help from the masses of college coaches to help place players in their college or other colleges. Is that a dark look at it? Most assuredly it is. When coaches behave as students are some sort of commodity-like animal, then the players themselves have just about every right to play just as dirty.

So when players like Daum, Brekke, Baker, Neale make decisions to shop their wares elsewhere even after committing we need to be cognizant as fans that coaches have done the same thing. In the transition between Delaney and Stitt, several verbal commits to Montana were told their position probably wouldn't be as valuable. So as such we see Brandom, Clark and to a lesser degree Tarik Littlejohn (offer but no commitment) become a bit embittered about the process.

Sure as heck it should make the school look bad, especially when you are jerking offers to kids with solid commitments to the school. If the schools are honest with the players, which in Montana's case it appeared to be, that is one thing. But jerking a scholarship of a kid who verballed because you found someone better is absolutely the lowest of the low.

Yet at the same place high school coaches and parents have to do a better job at informing players of what the market is for that player. Pulling Clark's scholarship was a product of the player not understanding his market. That isn't on the school, that is entirely on parents, the high school coaches, and the player for continually hedging the process while holding the college hostage.

Kids shouldn't have to prostitute themselves either. They shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars enrolling in recruiting programs and camps that only serve to pad the pockets of unscrupulous services that provide little discernible products to the player. For most those services do little to get them noticed. Those programs may provide 'select' camps and databases for coaches to access, but most of the leg work is done by coaches weeding out those kids who can or can't play at that level.

We are so obsessed as a fan base (read any fan base) about the most minute detail of recruiting, that we salivate like Pavlov's dogs every time a kid post his verbal commitment on Twitter. How many stars? Who is recruiting him? Who has offered? Does his dad sing absurdly patriotic songs about 'Merica? The process is its head completely and totally but don't believe for a moment that Ash is anything but highly frustrated the recruiting process didn't play his way this time.

The answer is somewhere in the middle. We shouldn't be criticizing kids for their lack of 'commitment' when the program is entirely not interested in engaging in the type of commitment of which Ash and others speak. College coaches have no problem 'DFA'ing' kids to the curb when they aren't meeting those expectations of the program. Ash is talking out both sides of his mouth. That is why he isn't in the least bit sympathetic to me as a high school coach.

To that end, when college coaches aren't working to flip kids 24 hours before signing day commences then Ash's complaints have merit.

However, as fans the less we turn this process into meat market would serve to decrease the amount of stress put on it. I find it absurd that high schools have signing day events, where productions are made about designating school choice on national television.

Frankly everyone is complicit in making this recruiting process a monster. Fans, parents, high school coaches, players and college coaches have made this less about making a choice that is sound for the player and more about a gigantic production. We are all guilty. I am.

This won't change until there is significant change on how colleges are told to recruit players. That lies with the NCAA and it won't change a thing that its power conferences don't have a problem with. This will require all agencies to put pressure to make change, but apparently from yesterdays proceedings there are 300 other schools, several thousand players, and a million fans who don't have a problem with current process. Nice try Ash, but your message just sounds like sour grapes. Have some cheese with your whine, because you like others will change your tune in two weeks, months or years when it benefits you.
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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby grizpack » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:19 pm

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby CV Griz Fan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:12 pm

Grizfan-24 wrote:Rob Ash got up on his soap box yesterday and sounded like a three year old child who didn't get dessert. He went on and on about commitment and how the recruiting process is broken and how kids should be held to standards and honor the strength of their verbal commitment. First, I get his point and how is frustrated that players continue to shop after their verbals to a school. Second, I get the recruiting process is cut throat.

However, before I go on about the recruiting process, this wasn't about Ash losing Daum to Stitt. That probably had some to do with it, but more about a few players late in the process within hours of the signing deadline switched their allegiances. As enjoyable for griz fans watching him squirm and wax a downright depressing speech on signing day, this wasn't about Daum in the slightest.

This is the system that he and other coaches have created. Recruiting is a cut throat business. I believe Ash has the right intentions but he would have some more credibility if a) hadn't pushed kids out of verbal commitments to other schools, and b) at a podunk third tier school in the middle of the hinterlands. His message is going to fall on deaf ears, because very few coaches share his sentiment (at least publicly) and most coaches are motivated by wins and losses even if it is at the expense of someone else.

The coaches profession isn't a tight-nit brotherhood. When you wander into coaches conventions this time of the year it is like a trip back through your high school experience. Incredibly clique ridden and a bunch of guys obsessed on how they are perceived. So Ash can scream from the mount, but as long as Auburn, Alabama, and others are okay at putting absurd pressure on 18 year old kids to re-neg on verbal commitments, you aren't going to find much of anything but crickets in the room in terms of vocal support.

Recruiting players is a dirty, dirty process. In most cases you are selling players a bill of goods but no product. Coaches wander around high schools and develop relationships with coaches and players when the situation suits them. When it doesn't, you won't get an ounce of help from the masses of college coaches to help place players in their college or other colleges. Is that a dark look at it? Most assuredly it is. When coaches behave as students are some sort of commodity-like animal, then the players themselves have just about every right to play just as dirty.

So when players like Daum, Brekke, Baker, Neale make decisions to shop their wares elsewhere even after committing we need to be cognizant as fans that coaches have done the same thing. In the transition between Delaney and Stitt, several verbal commits to Montana were told their position probably wouldn't be as valuable. So as such we see Brandom, Clark and to a lesser degree Tarik Littlejohn (offer but no commitment) become a bit embittered about the process.

Sure as heck it should make the school look bad, especially when you are jerking offers to kids with solid commitments to the school. If the schools are honest with the players, which in Montana's case it appeared to be, that is one thing. But jerking a scholarship of a kid who verballed because you found someone better is absolutely the lowest of the low.

Yet at the same place high school coaches and parents have to do a better job at informing players of what the market is for that player. Pulling Clark's scholarship was a product of the player not understanding his market. That isn't on the school, that is entirely on parents, the high school coaches, and the player for continually hedging the process while holding the college hostage.

Kids shouldn't have to prostitute themselves either. They shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars enrolling in recruiting programs and camps that only serve to pad the pockets of unscrupulous services that provide little discernible products to the player. For most those services do little to get them noticed. Those programs may provide 'select' camps and databases for coaches to access, but most of the leg work is done by coaches weeding out those kids who can or can't play at that level.

We are so obsessed as a fan base (read any fan base) about the most minute detail of recruiting, that we salivate like Pavlov's dogs every time a kid post his verbal commitment on Twitter. How many stars? Who is recruiting him? Who has offered? Does his dad sing absurdly patriotic songs about 'Merica? The process is its head completely and totally but don't believe for a moment that Ash is anything but highly frustrated the recruiting process didn't play his way this time.

The answer is somewhere in the middle. We shouldn't be criticizing kids for their lack of 'commitment' when the program is entirely not interested in engaging in the type of commitment of which Ash and others speak. College coaches have no problem 'DFA'ing' kids to the curb when they aren't meeting those expectations of the program. Ash is talking out both sides of his mouth. That is why he isn't in the least bit sympathetic to me as a high school coach.

To that end, when college coaches aren't working to flip kids 24 hours before signing day commences then Ash's complaints have merit.

However, as fans the less we turn this process into meat market would serve to decrease the amount of stress put on it. I find it absurd that high schools have signing day events, where productions are made about designating school choice on national television.

Frankly everyone is complicit in making this recruiting process a monster. Fans, parents, high school coaches, players and college coaches have made this less about making a choice that is sound for the player and more about a gigantic production. We are all guilty. I am.

This won't change until there is significant change on how colleges are told to recruit players. That lies with the NCAA and it won't change a thing that its power conferences don't have a problem with. This will require all agencies to put pressure to make change, but apparently from yesterdays proceedings there are 300 other schools, several thousand players, and a million fans who don't have a problem with current process. Nice try Ash, but your message just sounds like sour grapes. Have some cheese with your whine, because you like others will change your tune in two weeks, months or years when it benefits you.


24:
Great post. But really, it's more of a FCS/ Big Sky kind of issue that Ash is commenting on. Do you really think Urban Meyer doesn't understand the recruiting stakes? The last minute de-commits etc?
Every FBS coach knows recruiting is a cut-throat process. In fact, these coaches expect last minute
ploys to steal some of the prized recruits. When your dealing with the 3rd and 4th tier players that MSU/ Montana is interested in, then these instances become more of an issue. Believe me, Daum de-commiting to MSU wouldn't have raised an eyebrow in any other state. Both because of his moderate talent level and the fact that fan bases expect to lose players to their rivals. There is nothing to see here. Move on Rob Ash and MSU/ UM fan bases.....

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:36 pm

Image

I must correct you, on one thing CV, Daum is not "moderately talented" he has "it" and Ash knows "it". Daum is a game changer and you will see that over the years if he stays healthy, he will make 3-5 plays that will be remembered like the Keith Thompson hit on Matt Kline, the Ferris one handed catch against Idaho and the overtime Ferris catch against App St to put us in the NC game.

If I am wrong I will own up like I always do, but I am pretty confident in this or I wouldnt have said anything about it. He is special "DD" special.
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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby CV Griz Fan » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:59 pm

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Image

I must correct you, on one thing CV, Daum is not "moderately talented" he has "it" and Ash knows "it". Daum is a game changer and you will see that over the years if he stays healthy, he will make 3-5 plays that will be remembered like the Keith Thompson hit on Matt Kline, the Ferris one handed catch against Idaho and the overtime Ferris catch against App St to put us in the NC game.

If I am wrong I will own up like I always do, but I am pretty confident in this or I wouldnt have said anything about it. He is special "DD" special.


I meant "moderately talented" in terms of the National Recruiting scene. Sure Ash is "butt hurt" about losing Daum to the Griz. But it's not like Daum is an ESPN Top 150 recruit or anything close to that level. Daum is a potential big fish in a very small pond. Erik Dickerson showing up with a new Trans-Am and commiting to lowly SMU after verbally commiting to Texas A&M or what ever school it was, now that was a recruiting story.

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Postby ALPHAGRIZ1 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:14 am

Daum is as good as anyone outside the top 50. The only reason he isn't ranked higher is his size, which anyone knows is BS. You can play or you can't and he can play.

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby putter » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:48 pm

The only thing the NCAA could do is prohibit kids from verballing to schools so early. Set up a timetable and tell kids that if you commit to a school after x month/day you are committed, irregardless of other offers that come in. Probably will never work but I can't see much else other than adding to the recruiting calendar that they already have

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Re:

Postby CV Griz Fan » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:13 pm

ALPHAGRIZ1 wrote:Daum is as good as anyone outside the top 50. The only reason he isn't ranked higher is his size, which anyone knows is BS. You can play or you can't and he can play.

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I know you're high on Daum. I'm sure he'll be an excellent Griz recruit. But just to give you a "benchmark" to compare him to. Edward Paris Jr. was no. 50 on that ESPN list. He is a safety that sigined with LSU. He had over 30 scholarship offers. These scholarship offers were from every top program in the FBS including Alabama and Ohio State.

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby NDSUDynasty » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:24 pm

If this Daum kid was that good he wouldn't be going to Montana Alpha, he would be playing at an FBS school.

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby putter » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:36 pm

NDSUDynasty wrote:If this Daum kid was that good he wouldn't be going to Montana Alpha, he would be playing at an FBS school.


Not true. FBS schools have a fixation on prototype athletes. As Alpha said, FBS schools looked at him as being undersized and playing lower competition being from Montana. He reminds me of Mariani who was drafted, played in the pro-bowl, and is playing with the Bears

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Re: Ash's Sermon on Recruiting Off Base

Postby grizpack » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:06 pm

NDSUDynasty wrote:If this Daum kid was that good he wouldn't be going to Montana Alpha, he would be playing at an FBS school.


Or NDSU....... Thought I would help you out....


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